Joy in Stoicism: Epicureanism, Stoicism, and the True Joy of Philosophy
Episode #319
Joy isn’t often associated with Stoic philosophy, perhaps in part because, during Seneca’s days, there was a competing philosophy: Epicureanism. This philosophy is often seen to compete with Stoicism, for no good reason so far as I can tell. It’s often said that Epicureans seek pleasure and aim to reduce pain. They seek to have more joy in their life. Certainly, that doesn’t seem Stoic at face value, yet Seneca has several passages on joy and what it means for the practicing Stoic. What is joy in Stoicism, and how can we attain it?
Above All, Learn to Feel Joy
Let’s start with a Seneca quote that would cause any beginner Stoic to grimace:
“Above all, my dear Lucilius, make this your business: learn how to feel joy.”
Seneca, Letters From a Stoic, Chapter 23.3
Over the course of this episode, I will attempt to explain what Seneca really meant by this. But first, let’s delve into what neither Stoicism nor Epicureanism would support: hedonism.
Epicureanism is often tied in with hedonism because it states “pleasure” as being the ultimate goal, and people tend to think that that means binge drinking and partying every night. That isn’t the case.
Certainly, if Epicurus was a proponent of such a lifestyle, Seneca would have absolutely no business quoting him as much as he did, right?
What Epicurus meant by “pleasure” was more like being peaceful. He suggested that we engage in friendship, that we enjoy our meals and shelter, that we live humbly and simply, and that we avoid pain.
That doesn’t sound too bad, does it?
In fact, I would argue that most of the above is aligned with Stoicism. The main difference is that Stoicism calls for proactivity. It calls for engagement in the world, and doesn’t necessarily call for the avoidance of pain. You could consider the example of being unwilling to tell the truth at work because it could get you fired.
That would most certainly be painful and fearful. The Epicureans, I think, would suggest that you temper ambition, live simply, and don’t get too worked up over this tiny thing at work.
The Stoics would tell you that you have a moral obligation to speak truth, even if it makes you very uncomfortable. Heck, they’d suggest you say what needs saying even if it gets you fired.
Clearly, there are some subtle and some not-so-subtle differences between these two philosophies, but I did feel like I had to somewhat address the misconception around Epicureanism that it was a hedonistic philosophy.
As an aside, contemporary Stoic Chris Fisher said, when I interviewed him, that the only really difference between Stoicism and Epicureanism is their beliefs of nature. The Epicureans believed in randomness, in atoms bumping up against each other until ultimately you and I are here today.
The Stoics, as you all know, believed in a Logos. They believed that the cosmos was alive (in a sense).
However, other than that very important distinction, Stoicism and Epicureanism are only subtly different. They both even support the idea of living virtuously; they simply disagree on what that really means.
Understanding Joy
When we say “joy”, we sometimes think '“happy”. I want to be careful using these words interchangeably. Often, when people say “happy”, they really mean “meaning”. Consider that most people would agree that we cannot feel joy 24/7, yet may or may not consider themselves to be a “happy” person.
Another almost synonymous word is “gladness”. In fact, Seneca said the below:
“I do not wish you ever to be deprived of gladness. I would have it born into your house; and it is born there, if only it be inside of you.”
Seneca, Letters From a Stoic, Chapter 23.4
What is the difference between these two (or three)?
Joy is something that we feel right now. Happiness is something that we say when we mean “overall, I like my life”. Happiness, in the way we use it, seems to consider the fact that we will not always feel joy.
Something I hear a lot of wise people say is something along the lines of: “Yes, I live a happy life. There are good times and bad times, of course.”
Even the happiest person on the planet doesn’t exist in full bliss all of the time. That’s impossible. However, in a somewhat strange way, people who consider themselves happy do, generally, feel much joy throughout their day. Conversely, those who would describe themselves as “unhappy”, likely feel joy sometimes, but would characterize their overall experience of life as feeling kinda miserable.
To hit this idea home, ask yourself: are you joyful right now? Probably yes, because you are listening to this podcast episode. Next, ask yourself if you’re happy in life? You immediately reflect on the last week, month, year, and so on, to get an idea if, overall, your life is a good one.
Experiencing Joy, to the Stoic
Finally, let’s address joy to the Stoic. And to do so, I must continue Seneca’s line of thinking.
“He who ponders [death, poverty, temptation, and suffering] in his heart is full of joy, but it is not a cheerful joy. It is just this joy, however, of which I would have you become the owner; for it will never fail you when once you have found it's source.”
Seneca, Letters From a Stoic, Chapter 23.5
I gotta admit that I always chuckle when I read that because it’s so telling of what Stoicism is as a philosophy. Stoicism doesn’t care about sugar-coating anything. It doesn’t care about feeling just any kind of joy. It doesn’t care that you are not going left, right, and centre on a rollercoaster and having the time of your life. No.
Stoicism cares about one thing: being content with whatever life gives you and doing your best to act appropriate. That’s it. We could call it “courage”, “wisdom”, “justice”, and “temperance” all at the same time.
When you can fully accept everything that happens around you, when you can fully accept reality - that we will all die someday, and someday soon, when you can fully accept who you are as an individual - that is how the Stoic finds joy.
The Stoic finds joy when they pop a tire on their car and have to cab home because the stores are all closed and your spare isn’t working. The Stoic finds joy when they turn 20, and 30, and 40, and 50, all the way up to their dying day. The Stoic finds joy when their dearest friend dies.
And, no, it’s not a cheerful joy. That’s not what the Stoics promised. Rather, it’s something much more deep and robust.
It’s thinking “well, maybe if I hadn’t popped my tire, I would have collided with a truck a mile down the road”. It’s thinking “wow, I’m 70 years old today. And that means that I’ve had 70 years to live, and probably a few more!” It’s thinking “I was so lucky to have known such a wonderful friend for so long.”
What’s the equation here?
Again: it’s fully accepting everything that comes your way. It’s loving it, even. It’s looking on the bright side. It’s pondering what could go wrong so that when they do go wrong, you can more forward amicably.
And one more thing: it’s gratitude. Gratitude is being thankful for the things that you already have. Resentment is the opposite; it’s being angry because you feel like you were treated misfairly by life.
The amazing thing about gratitude is that you can only be grateful for the present moment. If, in this present moment, your tire is popped, well, be grateful! If, in this present moment, you are turning 70, be grateful! And if, in this present moment, you have to bury a friend, be grateful.
Is that easy? Heck no. It’s very hard. That’s why not everyone does it. But, as I always remind you, Stoicism never claimed life would be easy.
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Brandon Tumblin is most well-known for his podcast, The Strong Stoic Podcast, where he discusses philosophical ideas (solo and guest episodes).
Brandon is also a writer for THE STOIC, the official journal of The Stoic Gym.